Recent comments in /f/philosophy

darrenjyc OP t1_j0m7g6k wrote

Reply to comment by Nahbjuwet363 in What Plato Would Say About ChatGPT: Zeynep Tufekci argues that A.I. can be a learning tool for schools with enough teachers and resources to use it well. (The New York Times) by darrenjyc

Completely agreed on this. The Meno, on whether virtue can be taught (but also many other things) is another great place to start. I believe the Lysis, a dialogue between Socrates and some Athenian youth on the meaning of friendship, had historically been a popular entry point into Plato, and has the advantage of being relatively short and focused (15 to 20 pages).

Will add though that certain Plato dialogues definitely are pretty daunting, long, and intellectually demanding (though they almost never lose their fun literary and dramatic elements as well). Some big works like the Theaetetus, Gorgias, the Statesman, and Parmenides are utterly brilliant though probably not good places to begin.

If you have questions about Plato you could ask them in the r/Plato sub.

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iiioiia t1_j0m7fjv wrote

Reply to comment by IOnlyUseTheCommWheel in The good/ binary in morality is misguided and can be dangerous | Tommy Curry, Massimo Pigliucci, Joanna Kavenna by IAI_Admin

What I injected is directly related to the topic of discussion: "Nazis" (or so-called Nazis).

You are welcome to act as if this has no relevance whatsoever, and I am welcome to point out that you are incorrect. To me, this is satisfying as it physically documents the nature of the mind in a way that can be ingested at a future date. However, further replies also increases the potential value, so I encourage it.

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James_E_Fuck t1_j0m6ucd wrote

Reply to comment by FartOfGenius in What Plato Would Say About ChatGPT: Zeynep Tufekci argues that A.I. can be a learning tool for schools with enough teachers and resources to use it well. (The New York Times) by darrenjyc

"such problems would be easily seen by any careful teacher and penalized with a bad grade."

As a teacher I can tell you this won't happen. At least not in the majority of public schools. It's going to reveal a huge crack in education. When a teacher has 200 students the idea that they can meaningfully know or provide feedback to all of them is an illusion. They are mostly graded based on their ability to complete the tasks we give them. If they are able to fake those tasks or have an AI do it for them, they will be able to get by without too much trouble unless they do something obviously dumb (and plenty will, I have students copy paste answers off Google all the time and they don't even change the formatting or take out obvious signs) but in a system like ours where there aren't any meaningful consequences for cheating, the benefits will outweigh the risks for students without an internal moral reason not to.

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Nahbjuwet363 t1_j0m4m8m wrote

Reply to comment by miraclewhipple in What Plato Would Say About ChatGPT: Zeynep Tufekci argues that A.I. can be a learning tool for schools with enough teachers and resources to use it well. (The New York Times) by darrenjyc

You could do much worse than just starting with this specific dialogue, the Phaedrus. I would pick up a penguin or other paperback with a good introduction and editorial features. The fun and possibly surprising thing to keep in mind is that these aren’t really daunting works at all: they are dialogues with many familiar characteristics of literary works. Everything in them is worth paying attention to: set, setting, language, irony, character. They are sometimes even funny. I find them incredibly enjoyable to read and much more interesting and elusive than their reputation might suggest.

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iiioiia t1_j0m3za3 wrote

Reply to comment by IOnlyUseTheCommWheel in The good/ binary in morality is misguided and can be dangerous | Tommy Curry, Massimo Pigliucci, Joanna Kavenna by IAI_Admin

> Is irrelevant to the point I am making about ACTUAL neo nazis dude.

I have explicitly acknowledged that I agree with you in that regard.

However, it is true that there are many claims that certain people or groups of people "are" Nazis, where the accused has made no confession or exhibited behavior.

You are not obligated to discuss this, but I think it is interesting that you are saying it is not in any way relevant.

> You're trying to talk about "people on the internet".

I am talking (not just trying) to talk about a very specific subset of people.

> Stop trying to change the subject.

The subject of this subthread is a function of the ideas that have been raised. If you do not desire to discuss the aspect I have noted, you are more than welcome to disengage from the conversation.

> We're not talking about "people on the internet don't label nazis right". This is about whether certain actions can be declared as "evil" and what that means.

I have injected it into the conversation, and I have asked for your thoughts on the matter.

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IOnlyUseTheCommWheel t1_j0m320o wrote

Reply to comment by iiioiia in The good/ binary in morality is misguided and can be dangerous | Tommy Curry, Massimo Pigliucci, Joanna Kavenna by IAI_Admin

> The phenomenon I've mentioned

Is irrelevant to the point I am making about ACTUAL neo nazis dude. You're trying to talk about "people on the internet".

Stop trying to change the subject. We're not talking about "people on the internet don't label nazis right". This is about whether certain actions can be declared as "evil" and what that means.

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iiioiia t1_j0m2tjt wrote

Reply to comment by Nedink in What Plato Would Say About ChatGPT: Zeynep Tufekci argues that A.I. can be a learning tool for schools with enough teachers and resources to use it well. (The New York Times) by darrenjyc

Right, but the contents of your message seemed to state only the positive subset of ChatGPT's attributes, and implied that it is good for error checking/etc without acknowledging that the things it says are often completely incorrect or nonsensical.

My hope is that the similarity of it's "cognition" to ours may force or encourage us to pay more serious attention to the nature and consequences of ours.

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iiioiia t1_j0m0bcq wrote

Reply to comment by IOnlyUseTheCommWheel in The good/ binary in morality is misguided and can be dangerous | Tommy Curry, Massimo Pigliucci, Joanna Kavenna by IAI_Admin

>> but I am talking about the much more plentiful situation where people are accused of being Nazis despite not having admitted it > > > > Red herring.

Red herring: a clue or piece of information that is, or is intended to be, misleading or distracting.

I disagree. The phenomenon I've mentioned does in fact exist, and is related.

> But I'm glad you agree with me

Only on a subset of the whole though.

> So since you have nothing to add to this discussion, I think we're done here.

I am going to report your comment to the mods on this basis:

> > > > Argue your Position > >> Opinions are not valuable here, arguments are! Comments that solely express musings, opinions, beliefs, or assertions without argument may be removed. >

> Be Respectful > >> Comments which blatantly do not contribute to the discussion may be removed, particularly if they consist of personal attacks. Users with a history of such comments may be banned. Slurs, racism, and bigotry are absolutely not permitted. >

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IOnlyUseTheCommWheel t1_j0lzpf0 wrote

Reply to comment by iiioiia in The good/ binary in morality is misguided and can be dangerous | Tommy Curry, Massimo Pigliucci, Joanna Kavenna by IAI_Admin

> but I am talking about the much more plentiful situation where people are accused of being Nazis despite not having admitted it

Red herring.

But I'm glad you agree with me:

> In that minority case, fine

So since you have nothing to add to this discussion, I think we're done here.

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iiioiia t1_j0lzhj9 wrote

Reply to comment by IOnlyUseTheCommWheel in The good/ binary in morality is misguided and can be dangerous | Tommy Curry, Massimo Pigliucci, Joanna Kavenna by IAI_Admin

> Well, I was talking about a neo nazi that literally wants to murder someone.

Right, but the difference between thought experiments and reality is that in a thought experiment, one's declarations of truth are assumed to be true (which is ok, because the space is purely virtual*), whereas in reality people's declarations of truth are not necessarily true, though they are often perceived as such.

> It literally isn't what I'm talking about. I am not talking about random kids on fortnite labeling people as nazis. I'm talking about ACTUAL, SELF-DECLARED neo nazis who want to murder people, like these ones: https://www.npr.org/2018/03/06/590292705/5-killings-3-states-and-1-common-neo-nazi-link

In that minority case, fine, but I am talking about the much more plentiful situation where people are accused of being Nazis despite not having admitted it, or not even exhibited any characteristics of it. Basically, I am referring to human delusion and silliness, which often has very serious consequences.

> Im talking about these kinds of people and as a POC I am perfectly right to fear these people. Are you trying to tell me I shouldn't fear a neo nazi like the ones here in this article and call these people "evil"?

Let's see how you react to what I have written here.

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IOnlyUseTheCommWheel t1_j0lyu6c wrote

Reply to comment by iiioiia in The good/ binary in morality is misguided and can be dangerous | Tommy Curry, Massimo Pigliucci, Joanna Kavenna by IAI_Admin

Well, I was talking about a neo nazi that literally wants to murder someone.

That's a way different idea than "u killed me in fortnite u nazi".

It literally isn't what I'm talking about. I am not talking about random kids on fortnite labeling people as nazis. I'm talking about ACTUAL, SELF-DECLARED neo nazis who want to murder people, like these ones: https://www.npr.org/2018/03/06/590292705/5-killings-3-states-and-1-common-neo-nazi-link

Im talking about these kinds of people and as a POC I am perfectly right to fear these people. Are you trying to tell me I shouldn't fear a neo nazi like the ones here in this article and call these people "evil"?

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