Recent comments in /f/philosophy
platoprime t1_j4jb6i6 wrote
Reply to comment by Realinternetpoints in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
> there are sound associations in Arabic that only make sense to Arabic speakers
Like words and their connotations? Yeah, I wouldn't describe those as something special and "greater" than the meaning of a word.
agentchuck t1_j4javnn wrote
Reply to comment by 5slipsandagully in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
It's worth noting also that people always underestimate how much active work a child goes through in learning a language. They are under constant tutelage for years by family members who correct their pronunciation and language usage. They go to school where they have to dedicate hours on spelling, grammar, etc. And they have to use the language constantly in service of learning other things. Proficiency doesn't just appear from exposure.
As an adult learning a second language you generally won't have anywhere close to the same level of language exposure or learning support.
Realinternetpoints t1_j4jait9 wrote
Reply to comment by platoprime in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
It’s more than English. Other languages have similar associations with Kiki and boba. It sounds like this person is saying that there are sound associations in Arabic that only make sense to Arabic speakers
platoprime t1_j4j8i21 wrote
Reply to comment by TsarKashmere in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
It isn't synesthesia; we just use words like sharp and flat to describe sounds so it's only natural to project that meaning onto a word that sounds sharp or flat.
platoprime t1_j4j85wx wrote
Reply to comment by jmc20kop in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
Yes because we associate the sharp abrupt sounds in kiki to a sharp object because we use words like sharp and flat to describe sounds. That isn't "the shape of the sounds hold[ing] a meaning that is greater than the definition of the word itself?".
That's just recognizing there are different sounds.
TsarKashmere t1_j4j85in wrote
Reply to comment by jmc20kop in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
Synesthesia.
NorthernAvo t1_j4j7lik wrote
Reply to comment by kevinzvilt in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
I've always thought Arabic sounded beautiful. English is a very matter-of-fact language, just like German (and they're both Germanic) but you can see their reflection on the more stoic and serious, sometimes cynical and sarcastic, tones of English and German speakers.
The romantic languages all have a fun, bubbly, and colorful bounciness to them.
And then Arabic is just so elegant and, like you said, vivid-sounding. There's also a wisdom and warmth to it. I don't know a lick of it, really, but maybe one day.
jmc20kop t1_j4j69i6 wrote
Reply to comment by platoprime in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
Look it up, studies have been done to show that English speakers find the word kiki to be a sharper object and boba to be more rounded objects
namom256 t1_j4j4gzh wrote
Reply to comment by percautio in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
This might be generally true, but is not always true. I, for one, have a condition where I cannot filter sounds. I cannot focus on any particular sound unless it is significantly louder than all surrounding sounds. No matter how hard I try, if you speak to me as a train goes by, I will not be able to understand what you are saying if my life depended on it. I have been through many tests and have been told it is an issue with the way my brain processes sound, not my ears themselves. As such I absolutely need subtitles to understand most movies.
As a side effect, I am easily able to differentiate even the most subtle differences in language. Although I am aware that most people cannot. It has given me an edge in language learning and have learned 3 languages as an adult. 2 of which I speak at near native level fluency and am constantly mistaken as a native speaker due to my near perfect accent. Still working on the 3rd. It takes practice and time, but I can imitate the exact pronunciation unlike many other language learners.
I'm sure there's plenty of other people like me out there who can also tell the subtle nuanced differences between similar sounds, even long into their adulthood.
Sniffy4 t1_j4j4a2r wrote
Reply to comment by contractualist in Democracy is Only a Means to an End (Examining the Inherent Political Authority of Democracy) by contractualist
>Yet I wouldn't say the same for democracy, which is only useful to the extent it is able to produce those goods.
True on its face, but what is the alternative to democracy that produces better results?
contractualist OP t1_j4j3a7a wrote
Reply to comment by NotAnotherEmpire in Democracy is Only a Means to an End (Examining the Inherent Political Authority of Democracy) by contractualist
I argue that not even 1 has political authority. Popular support can't make an unjust law just.
genzronin t1_j4j36tg wrote
Reply to What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
Very good work.
contractualist OP t1_j4j33xe wrote
Reply to comment by Perrr333 in Democracy is Only a Means to an End (Examining the Inherent Political Authority of Democracy) by contractualist
Not interest groups themselves, but laws that only serve as interest group protection. My theory of natural law argues that reason is the only justifiable restriction on freedom. These reasons create moral principles and those moral principles applied to social facts create just laws. To the extent laws are arbitrary, they are unjust laws.
The example I provide is the trade restriction in Williamson v. Lee Optical. Basically, since courts have recognized rights in the social sphere (as shown by equal protection and substantive due process rulings) similar rights should be recognized in the economic sphere to strike down laws that lack a rational basis.
platoprime t1_j4j24jg wrote
Reply to comment by Realinternetpoints in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
That sounds like nonsense given you can attribute any meaning onto a word; it's just a symbol. It's one thing to say a language is beautiful or evocative but the idea that a sound can gain special meaning a word cannot seems silly.
thewimsey t1_j4j0bk4 wrote
Reply to comment by Apprehensive-Fix1202 in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
>I find there are even few people who can speak their own mother tongue fluently
Then you don't know what "fluently" means.
thewimsey t1_j4j07ti wrote
Reply to comment by phfan in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
Pretending that Americans are rubes and the rest of the world sophisticated doesn't make you look like a discerning sophisticate.
It make you look like a rube.
NotAnotherEmpire t1_j4j05fe wrote
Reply to comment by contractualist in Democracy is Only a Means to an End (Examining the Inherent Political Authority of Democracy) by contractualist
The forms of legitimacy broadly are:
- I have a lot of popular support
- I have a lot of thugs with weapons and fear factor
- I have divine authority.
2 is extremely flimsy and 3, once no longer taken seriously, is just 2. And 3 is no longer taken seriously today, worldwide.
So if popular legitimacy is needed, counting votes is a good way to do it.
Razkawebos t1_j4iz0un wrote
Reply to comment by kevinzvilt in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
You mean speaking with enthusiasm? Unfortunately even if I knew any Arabic languages I’d still sound monotonous.
Perrr333 t1_j4iy9zz wrote
Reply to comment by contractualist in Democracy is Only a Means to an End (Examining the Inherent Political Authority of Democracy) by contractualist
I think concluding with things like "interest groups are bad" (to simply dramatically) is a little lackluster, seeing as most people would agree with that anyway. What more extreme things are implied by the ideas the article tries to support?
IAmTriscuit t1_j4ixe85 wrote
Reply to comment by 5slipsandagully in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
Yeah, absolutely it does. A huge part of additional language teaching is learning exactly how those differences manifest and what teachers can do to best navigate those challenges and differences. But it is undoubtedly, 100 percent possible for someone to learn a language well past the "critical period".
5slipsandagully t1_j4iwpn2 wrote
Reply to comment by IAmTriscuit in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
My understanding is that you can obviously learn a language after a certain age, but that learning happens differently later in life than in early childhood
Ok-Librarian4752 t1_j4iw1sx wrote
Reply to Democracy is Only a Means to an End (Examining the Inherent Political Authority of Democracy) by contractualist
Great summary of an even better newsletter. I agree with many of these points and also can’t help but point out the small scale that democracy operates in.
When a party is elected to a government, they are concerned about the welfare and wellbeing of profitable citizenry. They are also typically concerned with combatting issues with high media visibility, profitable outcomes, short term fixes, rather than a focus on ethical issues (systemic racism, gender pay gap, the high rates of burnout and workplace incivilities, wealth inequalities) as they are within the system, governments can do little about problems which stem from a politically democratic systemic level.
Most attempts in modern democracies to create fundamental changes in harm reduction or improving systemic issues fail dismally (improving wealth inequalities, gender inequalities, corruption etc) as the problem resides as a systemic level rather than finding a panacea with policies that could be overturned with the next change of government.
Perrr333 t1_j4ivqc1 wrote
Reply to Democracy is Only a Means to an End (Examining the Inherent Political Authority of Democracy) by contractualist
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried” - Winston Churchill
5slipsandagully t1_j4iunes wrote
Reply to comment by denisoshea13 in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman
OP's article was about what it means to "know" a language, not what it means to be competent in a language, so of course my comment was about the effects of language on cognition. The only point my original comment made is that childhood language acquisition (no matter how many languages that may involve) and language learning later in life are qualitatively different. I'm not sure why that's controversial or harmful
GilligansCorner t1_j4jc1l3 wrote
Reply to Democracy is Only a Means to an End (Examining the Inherent Political Authority of Democracy) by contractualist
Democracy doesn’t ensure your voice is heard but drowned out by the herd.