The issue isn't really the fares. It's the other problems they cause on the subway that inconvenience other passengers.

There's usually somebody just sitting at the handicapped gate at Norristown to let people on the high speed line. Probably happens more than 2800 times in a year just there.

I believe the gates do stop people from bringing that down onto the platforms. People also aren't going to pay to loiter on the platforms. It will make it so people using the transit, actually are there to use it. Of course there will still be crime, people littering, etc. but I would say this definitely would reduce it.

I know SEPTA likes to do a million pilot programs and not actually follow through but I think just comparing one station to with these to the rest would show their use. Of course this all assumes SEPTA decides to implement something properly.

2,800 reported fare jumps works out to a single fare jump per week at each station on the BSL and MFL. That 2,800 number might very well be off by 100x, in which case $700k every year is an excellent payback.

>The homeless drug addicts smoking crack on the subway drive away multiple more users than just their one fair.

The thing about someone who can pull together enough money for a score is that they can pull together enough money for a fare if it gets them on the train for unlimited time.

An alarm ain't stopping shit.

To be fare (ba-dum-tsh), that math isn't factoring any increase in ridership SEPTA might expect to experience from improving conditions on the trains (by say deterring homeless etc. from living in stations / on trains)

That's fucking infuriating. "tries to avoid picking up privately collected trash."

So we'll leave it on the street. Great.

But who will trash the trashmen?

Working with Philadelphia's municipal services is making me in favor of privatization honestly. I never would have imagined myself feeling this way.

I WANT Philly to handle these sorts of things themselves, but they've proven time and again to be so fucking incompetent. I guess what I'm saying is that the city has broken me and my idealism

The investment is more about keeping the problems that fair jumpers bring into system out of the system. The homeless drug addicts smoking crack on the subway drive away multiple more users than just their one fair.

Commenting because that article made things sound quite confusing and I am a subscriber and personally know the awesome Glitter team. The program that is on current pause between Glitter and the Streets Dept is only for 45 blocks where they coordinate with the city to have glitter pick up trash collected after a general trash pick up day. Obviously, that would be ideal. However, Glitter is still cleaning those streets and many others by having the street trash they gather picked up on general pick up. Hopefully, they resolve the issue since the city knows that one of the big causes of litter is the current way general pick-ups work.

> full body the turnstiles

which aren't ADA compliant and cause issues in emergencies, those things are awful

Broad Street Line

>The Broad Street Line (BSL), also known as the Broad Street subway (BSS), Orange Line, or Broad Line, is a subway line owned by the city of Philadelphia and operated by the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA). The line runs primarily north-south from the Fern Rock Transportation Center in North Philadelphia through Center City Philadelphia to NRG station at Pattison Avenue in South Philadelphia; the latter station provides access to the stadiums and arenas for the city's major professional sports teams at the South Philadelphia Sports Complex, about a quarter mile away.

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I was at Cecil B Moore the other day, mid-day, and watched probably 10 people skinny past or hop over the turnstile in the span of like 10 minutes. Let's conservatively call it 10 jumps an hour at CBM, only consider 12 hours per day, and use the 2018 "weekday ridership" numbers by station from the BSL wiki. That's ~3.5% of total riders that aren't paying (and maybe higher since ridership is way down from 2018); does that sound directionally correct? Applying that to annual BSL + MFL ridership of ~35M (2022 stats; waaay tf down from pre-COVID haha wow) suggests an annual fare jump count of ~1.2M. At $2 per, that's $2.4M in evaded fare (assuming 100% of fare-jumpers turn into fare-payers) which is not close to immediate payback for these new gates. But I'm still for the move because it ought to significantly improve the SEPTA experience and hopefully help increase ridership.

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Of course it's under-reported, but people are also seriously overestimating how their personal experience relates to the whole picture.

Trash collectors pick up a dumpster right outside my apartment, and a decent amount of trash doesn't make it into the truck. Some hits the edge and falls in the street behind the truck. They always just drive away and leave a small pile of trash in the middle of the street.

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I've worked in transportation in Philly for nearly 15 years and have worked with and attended hundreds of events with all different levels of people from streets, from interns to Rich Montanez.

I couldn't pick Carlton Williams out of a lineup.

I gotta assume the reason they're bringing back street sweeping is to account for this.

It's a shitty, roundabout way to get there, but in the end there's no good reason this work should be farmed out to a private company.

There's no way the number of fare jumps is that low. I see multiple on a daily basis, and it's not like I'm camping out there watching. This is just what I observe in the few seconds I'm near the turnstiles.

I’ll give the conservatives props for consistently holding out of date and close minded opinions

I’m usually not one to discourage investing in long term improvements, I just find the case they’re making to be absurd based on these numbers. I guess I just wonder if “high-tech” is needed for this exact problem.

I also find it hard to believe that the crime that people are concerned about is stealing a $3 ride on the train. Gates aren’t going to stop people from fighting and doing drugs or whatever.

Where I grew up, elementary school started at like 7 and middle/high school at 8:20. Elementary got out at 2:30 and middle/high at 3:25