Recent comments in /f/history

Xciccor t1_j1w6yet wrote

Reply to comment by oga_ogbeni in Death of Vercingetorix by oga_ogbeni

Let me clarify by saying that, it is not my own opinion that he should have kept going or that he needed to continue the wars. My comment above is instead suggesting what he felt he had to do.

Ceasar was in a hole of his own doing. This tends to be the case with those who push their luck with war, walls start coming in from all sides and leaving Gaul certainly wouldn't just stop the conflict he had begun. My point above was simply suggesting that Ceasar FELT he needed conclude the war, leaving no ghosts to haunt him.

Aas /r/PDV87 noted below, Ceasar was in many ways running on bought time. He was already operating far out of regular roman juristiction and who knows what he actually felt about being in Gaul--perhaps he felt it was not safe to return to Rome until he had settled what he had started in Gaul.

It had in many ways become his war, and that is reflected in his rejection of adhering to the senate.

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Tex089 t1_j1w2v4j wrote

I appreciate the answer. I'm still not sure I understand the classification. If all European peoples arrived via migration, and both peoples settled in their respective areas at the same time, then by that criteria either both or neither would be considered indigenous Europeans, with later colonization only affecting the indigenous status of that specific area.

Apologies if that doesn't make sense, or seems confrontational. I'm ignorant on this subject and just trying to understand.

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LateInTheAfternoon t1_j1vror5 wrote

Generally three criteria: 1) the Sami have inhabitated northern Fennoscandinavia for millenia (Norse people only settled in the southern part and along the coasts) 2) their lands were colonized in the 19th and 20th century by Sweden, Norway and Finland 3) they have kept to their traditions despite rather cruel attempts to assimilate them.

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anewbys83 t1_j1vo34o wrote

What does a country being in the EU have to do with indigineity? Just because they left doesn't mean they're not a European nation, part of European culture, etc. Just the unique British Isles subsets. Celtic peoples certainly didn't care if their compatriots lived in mainland Europe or not. It does imapcr EU stats, but that's not the only way to define Europe and European.

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ConsitutionalHistory t1_j1vi3fe wrote

Define indigenous and/or how many generations/centuries do a people have to live in an area before they themselves can be described as indigenous? As most people believe in the 'out of Africa' principle that human ancestry came from that continent...then technically, no Europeans are truly indigenous.

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AgoraiosBum t1_j1vet0k wrote

It's like the apocryphal quote about Nixon by Pauline Kael (which she didn't actually say): “I can’t believe Nixon won. I don’t know anyone who voted for him." Kael was a New York film critic, so the joke here is that in the urban intelligentsia, she and her friends were not Nixon fans. But of course, that circle in New York City does not represent a giant country like the US, nor would upper class liberals in Tehran represent a country that was primarily peasant farmers and villagers, who were conservative and religious.

A plurality of the people did support Kohmeini, although they didn't necessarily know what he would implement. Some of the first things they did when coming to power was crack down on those who would oppose them (a good revolutionary always consolidates the revolution...), which ended up being a lot of people involved in getting rid of the Shah. Revolutions tend to devour their children...

The actual quote was " ‘I live in a rather special world. I only know one person who voted for Nixon. Where they are I don’t know. They’re outside my ken. But sometimes when I’m in a theater I can feel them.” Which certainly shows a self-awareness about her circle.

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CoprophilicClown t1_j1vb0hh wrote

I feel like most Europeans would be considered “indigenous.” Unless they are immigrants living in Europe or their ancestors were immigrants, if they can trace their ancestry back to anywhere in Europe I don’t see how you could say they are not indigenous. The Sami are most-likely falsely considered the “only indigenous Europeans” because Europeans do not think of themselves as tribal people living off the land. This is obviously NOT what indigenous means. Most Germanic and Eastern European countries have been mixed with “non-indigenous” genetics like the mongols and turks, but probably, so have the Sami. The only people in Europe you could argue are the least “indigenous” by this logic would probably be southern Europeans who mixed greatly with north Africans, mongols ect. but it still seems odd saying Italians or Spaniards are not indigenous to the area as their ancestors have likely been there for as long as humans have been in Europe.

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Tiako t1_j1v6uww wrote

Reply to comment by tevors in Death of Vercingetorix by oga_ogbeni

While this can sometimes be taken too far, yes, Roman imperialism and the maintenance of the Roman empire was always a combination of force, co-option, and diplomacy. In particular, one of the greatest tools in its toolbox was a fairly open handed approach to bestowing citizenship to allies and later participants in the administrative system.

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