Apparently, they don't believe in objectives. Have you seen their distortion? You'd have trouble with EQ, too.

In the sub $100 area, the Hexa is ridiculously good. In the $200-300 range the Timeless or Timeless AE is a great set.

You don’t need TOTL gear to have “the best” sound, for you. Especially if your preferences don’t line up with a predefined frequency target (like Harman). Diminishing returns hits hard around $800 or so, for both headphones and IEMs, but it starts even lower than that. Play around in the budget price bracket, find out what tunings and technical proficiencies you like the most and then if you still got the upgrade itch, now you have a better idea of what to look for in higher end gear. You should also not buy anything that’s so expensive that you’re afraid to use it.

Also, don’t go crazy on amps or DACs right out of the gate. Find what is generally considered “great for the money” and stick with that at least until you’re pretty sure you’re settled in with the headphones/in-ears you have. You can spend a hell of a lot of money on amps and DACs for almost no benefit over something reasonably priced and well liked. The main thing to keep in mind when shopping for this stuff is what kind of tonal shift does it impart. I keep running into amps/DACs that roll off the treble too much making my headphones sound darker than they should. Some like that but I don’t. Maybe you will, maybe you won’t. Won’t know until you try it whether you want a tell-it-like-it-is dead neutral amp or a warm/dark amp or whatever.

looks cool! I use this same cable with adapters for my HD580

I love their warm-ish sound ! It’s the iem I take to work for my breaks

> The cheapest one I own is $100, an old Vsonic GR7.

I don't think you're giving the recent years of IEM revolution credit.

All the $20 chi-fi like Chu, Wan'er, Zero have smoked the former $100ish classics like GR07 away.

$75–150 has been eaten up by Moondrop and others too. Shure's SE series and Westone, among others, have been eclipsed by this range.

I liked the $350ish IEM range myself earlier, which was considered just mid-fi earlier but now gets you pretty top-end performance.

Make me wonder if they are real open backs or just like the Final Audio E-Series where it doesn't give a real open feel either way.

For some context to OP I disagree with this comment.

I do agree that your current setup is audiophile, as for me audiophile is just getting the best audio quality for your budget.

I guess where I am confused is everything past there. If you already have a decent speaker setup that is your preferred listening method, why deep dive in the headphone hobby? For me personally, speakers are just not a viable option at this point between too close of neighbors and respecting the rest of my house (making some noise would be fine but I can’t turn it up too much). I also think that diminishing returns is a thing and that even compared to what they have things aren’t going to be 2x, 5x or even compared to an LCD-5 90x better. However, as you noted things do get better and for me, while they may be smaller differences, those differences are what allow me to teleport and completely lose myself versus just listening to music with good tonal balance.

It really just sounds like you are a speaker person and it is clouding what your comments are supposed to mean. Do you just feel that a speaker setup is just that much better?

Damn....

You have never set in an electrical engineering class have you?

All amps sounds the same unless its broken.. is that what you said? how ignorant can you be? ... thats just stupid. the worst is that, this * idea * really seems to be praised, its really sad. i will always give the benefit of the doubt for cables and burn-in but your last sentence is just plain stupidity or ignorance.. i dont know mate.

im sorry, i dont really want to say bad things but i hate seeing that ... the more people that say shit like that, the more people that will believe it ..

Im testing the Salnotes Zero and they are definitely an improvement from the Chu too!

Bang for the buck for me starts at around $150 and is the $150 to $300 range. You can get a lot of really good stuff in this price range.

However, there are better products at a higher price point. The downside is the price isn't really tied to the cost, so you're buying a lot into brand, marketing, and market expectation. However, this does give manufacturers some luxury to do extra, like better materials and construction, better drivers, better accessories, more accessories, better case, etc. It can also buy some engineering and development time. You may put more effort into a flagship product rather than a midrange or low end product with heavier costing constraints.

My top three IEMs I own are $1000 range IEMs. Are they worlds better than my stuff around the $300 range? Not a ton, no. We're talking 3x the price for 10%-20%, and even that percentage is subjective. However, the stuff I have in the $150-$300 range blows the cheaper junk out of the water. Low end stuff is significantly worse. There are a few decent cheap things, but the level of sound quality and performance is always a quite reasonably jump stepping into the real mid tier stuff. I've been in the IEM hobby for 20 years. The cheapest one I own is $100, an old Vsonic GR7. Virtually everything I own or want to own is in the $200 to $1000 range. Again, it's not really a cost thing. It's just how the market's spread out these days. You're just stuck buying a $15 cost to manufacture thing for $200 because...reasons.

I have SSP in my collection. I think they are underrated. Highs a bit recessed, but oh so comfortable.

The best DT990 =

Chrome edition 600ohm

That said, the pair you have may have an extra filter disc installed to damp highs.

There is no perfect sound and no perfect headphone. You can't quantify it.

The point where spending more money greatly diminishes returns is when you have zero headphone and then you have your cheapest headphone. Going from no headphone to $1 headphone is the biggest improvement possible and going from $1 headphone to $50 headphone is not nearly as great of a leap. That's why diminishing returns don't really make a whole lot of sense.

If you want to look at it like a graph where you plot audio quality against price, it's going to be a steep steep steep jump from $0 to the dirt cheapest headphones you can buy, and then still fairly steep but growing more gradual as you increase price. But again, this graph is imaginary because you cannot quantify sound quality.

KZ seems to be pretty good at balanced armature & dynamic driver tuning and setup.

I don’t think anyone has solved the energy efficiency problem with planar magnetic drivers

Since all the IEM producers have figured out 3d printing sound channels from the driver to the output canal… it becomes a question of tuning (which you can edit a bit with your DAC), & quality/design of the shell encasing drivers & board.

Value?

The non-KZ brands mostly have nicer packaging and accessories. KZ accessories aren’t great… but a decent cable upgrade is $15-$30, & good ear tips for $5-$20. Choose at will from other brands.

I really don’t think there is much sound improvement gained when spending over $150. Accessories and packaging sure does get better, but you don’t need everything to come in one box together, from 1 company. (Almost an anti-Apple statement.)

My friends compared hardware with me, who have high end UE custom IEMs, Etymotic ear penetrators, and other $400+ setups. They were all blown away by how a $50, $80, and $120 IEM sounded so good & satisfying compared to their more expensive setups.

The CIEM owner was the only who stayed with his brand… because they were custom fit.

With KZ the real problem becomes the shape of the IEMs. Some have a bump opposite the ear canal insert, some are smooth.

Example: AS16Pro & AST are both balanced armature setups. AS16Pro - $50ish 8 BA per ear No bump Wide ear nozzle (part you put the tips on)

AST - $120-140ish 12 BA per ear Has bump Standard ear nozzle

I love the sound of both. They are almost identical in terms of sound out put.

I’d love to use the AS16Pro. It looks better to me, it weighs less, but the ear nozzle is so wide I can’t wear them & be comfortable. I have narrow ear canal.

My friend who went from a $400 setup to AS16Pro loves the sound of the AST more, but the bump makes them not fit his ear. He has a giant ear canal by comparison. I use the smallest possible ear tips, he uses some triple flange giant tip that looks like an ear dildo. We are all different…

Oddly enough the bump seems mostly cosmetic in the AST. Straight up empty space in the bump (I love clear setups).

*I’m into detailed transparent sound output most of the time, so I prefer balanced armature setups from KZ most of the time. Sometimes I listen to the ZAS. It’s the nicest looking KZ IEM I have, so I’ll use those when I’m going places in the evening.

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At least, from what I remember. Take it with a grain of salt. It's been a while since I listened to my Starfields, as well as the fact that I'm still relatively new to the audio scene

The Dusks has punchier but cleaner bass compared to the Starfields. Less distortion/mud

The top end is also clearer with the Dusks, instruments at the too end like the cymbals are clearer, less distorted (if at all)

Can't remember much about the mids to compare. Sorry about that.

I would say that the Starfields are about 30-40% of the way to becoming a Dusk. But you have to consider the huge price jump from being a 1DD IEM to a 2BA + DD IEM and the commission that Crinacle is getting from tuning it with the price of a Dusk 2 in itself.

I'll re-listen to my Starfields again to give a better explanation.

Yeah, the Stellaris is already a big iem in itself so it doesn’t bother me, I wouldn’t put these cables on my ssp tho

Comparing the Starfield to the Blessing 2 Dusks, would you say the B2D are twice as good or more? Or that the Starfield are 80/90% of the way there?

I have the Chu and the B2D and I would say they are only a percentage better not multiples better.

Absolutely not!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-mdr-v6-vs-mdr-7506-there-is-a-difference-in-sound-pictures-too.539506

https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/sony/mdr-v6.htm

Like one other comment mentioned. Audio can not be quantified or described well enough just by words alone. You need to experience it for yourself, go to places that allow you to demo equipment that suits your needs.

We listen to sound differently, and it's best to see and test what's best for you. But as a starting point, I'd upgrade your IEMs to something better. I've only used the Moondrop Starfields and the Blesskng 2 Dusks with a balanced 4.4mm cable out of my Fiio M11 Plus ESS, so I'm not really the best person to ask for recommendations, which is why I suggest you try some stuff out for yourself

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Would a $50 IEM be 90% there?

No. Not even close.

There are different styles, like open back vs closed back. Different tunings. Different materials. Etc.

Do you need to spend 1000’s more? No. But you have a very V shaped tuned IEM that doesn’t have much in the way of technicalities. Other headphones will be tuned differently and will sound different.

A Sennheiser HE-1 which is considered the “worlds best headphone”, is going to be miles better. (It’s $50,000 though). You don’t need that though.

You’ll notice significant differences with something as simple as an open back. You can get into one of those for less than $100.

Ultimately you have a starting point. But yes, it does improve from there.

For me there's better stuff out there, but this is all preference. KZ's don't fit well for me and I own the ZS10 pro myself. Too sharp in treble for me. I love the Truthear Hexa and it does maybe 80% of what my modded 6XX does on tubes, but with the difference that subbass slams much harder and deeper and that there's much less stage and less natural timbre.

Diminishg returns kick in after 200-250ish $ IEMs I feel like, but I move in the sub 100$ area myself. Still wanna try stuff like the Timeless or blessing 2 one day though. I'm sure especially the technical capabilities excel on the higher end stuff.

Now for headphones it's a little different I feel like because what they excel at varies a lot. Some say the HD6X0 lineup is worse then the HD800 lineup, but I would say that they're on a similar level, despite being different in what they excel at. Many things out there are for different tastes and if you don't value certain capabilities of a pair of headphones then they might be not worth it. I personally do not appreciate a huge soundstage as much as I appreciate natural sounding vocals and instruments, that's why I'm plenty happy with my setup. And if you look at the price difference then it gets quite insane, with the HD800 being so much more expensive than the 6XX.

But then someone else would probably say that I'm missing out on a lot. But for me this is not the case. You see, "endgame" is just where you feel like you're satisfied and the only thing that's left then is the fear of missing out, driven by YouTube reviews, reddit posts and advertisements.

So you can simply stop at any point in time and enjoy your setup. It will rarely happen that you will suddenly hear different things in your favorite songs after spending a certain amount of money on a solid pair of IEMs or headphones. Most stuff you can buy is just great and many things are super affordable for what they offer.