You're talking about intergenerational poverty, right? The people in abject poverty you're discussing are born into that. You are writing them off as lost causes who should be sequestered from the rest of us because of their cost to society.

I mean, we'd save money on building ramps, too, if we paid disabled people to stay home. But we don't do that. Because it's bad.

If not literally eugenics, then it's the idea of eugenics applied to economics. "Disabled people shouldn't have kids because it's bad for our gene pool" isn't that different than "Poor people from terrible neighborhoods shouldn't participate in society because it's bad for our economy." It's a bad idea and you should feel bad about promoting it.

I always wondered why there was illegal dumping all over the city, but it makes sense now when the taxes you pay doesn't even provide anywhere for you to drop off bulk trash.

Not being a troll just curious after reading the thread what your point is. Do you think if Fox linked to whatever data they used it would show that the kids are proficient in math?

You asked for data, I provided it. Interpret it how you wish. I'm not here to argue with you.

> Is something off with the reporting?

Yes. The reporting says they got data on 2000 students from 23 schools, which is obviously incomplete.

But also apparently the 8th grade proficiency level in 2021 was 6.5% statewide, so the actual difference in the city numbers probably isn't bigger than you'd expect based on pre-pandemic years.

In this city, we just experienced a massive overtime fraud scheme that was not possible without the assistance and protection of the police union. Show me the evidence of that happening for teachers in the city. In reality, teachers in the city are having their pay and benefits lag behind the surrounding counties now.

Please tell me, what heritable conditions am I talking about?

Maybe worth pointing this out for context: the state's press release about the 2022 data:

> In mathematics, students saw gains in nearly all grades as compared to the prior year’s assessment administered in Early Fall 2021. However, student outcomes have not returned to pre-pandemic levels. In middle school, 17.6% of sixth grade students were proficient in math and just 6.5% of students who took the grade 8 assessment were proficient. The percent of students proficient in Algebra I was 14.5%, below pre-pandemic results of 27% proficient in 2019.

But also, to echo myself, if anybody wants to take Sinclair's numbers seriously, they should be expected to explain why 2000 students from 23 schools is in any way representative of those schools' entire student bodies.

You're discussing sequestering people from society based on their heritable conditions. Sounds a lot like eugenics to me.

This

You know, this is a good perspective. I’ll go do more research.

[deleted]

Eugenics? I’ve said nothing about reproductive control, completely outside of the discussion.

Yes? Look at the demographics of the county. its going to flip minority white by the next census, a drop from like 80% white in 1980 or so. Blacks that could went right where the whites did a half century earlier once they had the chance.

> poverty is largely unbreakable

I bet if you go back 5 generations in your family you had someone working as a subsistence farmer living in a shack they didn't even own, and today you are probably well educated middle class and white collar. News flash, people do actually get out of poverty. My grandmother was daughter to a tenant farmer and died owning her own suburban house with no material wants, all the cars and vacations she wanted, having worked as a university secretary for 30 years.

A lot of why she did that though was from racism. She was on the winning side of the post war suburban sprawl movement, her husband was a veteran, they had all the opportunity handed to them if they were willing to take it and did.

By comparison the "irredeemable" poor people you are describing have been here for 80+ years in the same cycle of disinvestment. They have lived the same lifestyle for generations with no opportunities offered. And like I said, those that did find opportunity largely took it and left. Go find me a anywhere in the county with the kind of total abandonment that the butterfly has.

Its often as simple as if you can get a bank loan on if you can escape generational poverty or not. My family exists as it does today on the back of guaranteed low rate mortgages for veterans and whites after WW2.

You have serious issues. Seek help.

Of course it can, it just takes a massive investment of time and resources. You're just pushing eugenics.

Great, now show me where that the data is that supports these claims:

Here's what you linked, sorted by Baltimore City schools reporting anything.

What data was Fox using and why isn't their dataset available?

do the people that get out have meaningfully better outcomes (after adjusting for assumed better income due to being in a more economically vibrant area), or are they still income-adjusted, just as sick and unproductive? additionally, since we’re talking cyclical, are their children better off than they were, or are they actually worse off because poverty is largely unbreakable, it just moved around

> Among the list of 23 schools, there are 10 high schools, eight elementary schools, three Middle/High schools and two Elementary/Middle schools.

> Exactly 2,000 students, in total, took the state math test at these schools. Not one could do math at grade level.

If there's one thing everybody can agree on about Baltimore schools, it's that ~85 people's a typical student body size, right?

The poor parts of Baltimore have been naturally depopulating for half a century. If you look at the census data all the areas you would describe as blighted are all losing double digit population per decade. Anyone that can get out does, and anyone that can't probably has a poor life expectancy.

If literally the status quo continues, the city will keep leveling vacant blocks, until all the depressed parts of the city are empty fields. It will just take another century. Simultaneously, gentrification pushes back into these areas on a lot of fronts, and as people find they can sell their run down crumbling houses for enough to move elsewhere with better opportunity they usually will.

oooh sorry my value system emphasizes factoring externalities into total costs and benefits and recognizing that interventions across the board are largely ineffective and thus i come up with different responses to problems and that scares you so you call me names oooh

Here's the current city schools budget. How would you reallocate the money if you're so smart?

What's axiomatic in American public schools is poor areas make for poor school performance.

The answer is the same as it was 60 years ago: integration. If not racial, economic. Of course, this isn't politically feasible.

Reddit has this blind spot when it comes to unions. They hate the police union and take great umbrage at the overtime fraud and various other games that they play but refuse to believe that other public service unions are doing similar things. This is despite Baltimore city schools failing multiple audits. It's a very strange cognitive bias.

multiple interventions have been mentioned in these comments. they don’t work. what is your idea?