Nope. High school prepares these kids for the real world. High School starts at say 10am.... then they will have to transition starting at 10am to say 8am for work.

Bet you never went to college, half of the classes only start at 10am at the earliest.

Yes but I'm not convinced later start times will mean that kids get more sleep. What I've noticed tends to happen is with later start times kids stay up later. Well I think we really need to do for a lot of kids is to schedule fewer things for them to do after school a lot of kids have so much crap to do and enforce early bedtime.

So we should just ignore “optimal” and aim for “convenient”?

Ah yes, my favorite big brain argument: I did it, so you have to, too.

I played sports in high school. A world is possible where sports plays second fiddle to education, rather than the other way around.

Your quick Google search hasn't done you well. Lemme see that source. I suggest taking much more time out in your research, especially if you are a parent raising our future generation. It's our responsibility to be on top of these things. I also suggest some sociology courses and possible some psych and oral communication because you didn't even set yourself up for a good battle, man.

“I choose to believe my own statistics even though correlation /= causation”

See this all the time.

I don't know, what happens?

Screen time is something where parents/families have more of a say. School start time is not.

Shhh they don’t want to hear this, they just want to point to the study that says “optimal learning” and ignore all other factors

Less than 20% have part time jobs, but I’m sure your arbitrary observation was more accurate than data

Just because an older generation "survived" something that was objectively bad for adolescent development doesn't mean we should subject future generations to it.

You clearly didn’t play sports in Maine in high school. Teams travel 1-2 hours for games. Your point is exactly the same point against the data- those who want to prioritize learning will do so regardless as to whether it’s a little harder because their bodies clocks aren’t aligned to the system. Kids succeed now, they go on to great schools etc. we could make it more optimal with a different time start but we would lose other aspects, like school sports, that are important parts of their growth. Instead we ask them to work a little harder to overcome the time issue and most do very well.

in short yes!

The reality is that shitty high schools are becoming (or already) the norm. At my highschool in the late 2010s there were a ton of teachers who phoned it in and did little but going off of a packet, and when you have the problem of teachers getting shit pay and shitty working conditions all over the country you're only going to make that problem worse.

Anyone with three braincells can infer that the other commenter wasn’t trying to insinuate you should leave a physically or developmentally disabled teenager to their own devices

Because I thought you might have had a rational reason not “child labor”,. A quick google search tells me that less than 20% of high schoolers have pet time jobs, so that’s obviously the devious reasons we start high schools early, to capitalize on less than a quarter of the students

Clearly, sports are more important than the intellectual, physical, emotional, and social development of a human

Do kids not learn now? I missed where huge percentages of kids are leaving Maine schools without graduating or not going on to excellent colleges and careers. We balance everything in life. Does the data show that “optimal” education would include a later time? Sure. It doesn’t show the counter factual tho that no kid can succeed in the current system, it’s just not the most optimal. But the data also shows well rounded kids are more successful, so the system takes that in to consideration

It never made sense to have little kids start later than high school kids. Little kids wake up earlier naturally. Getting them on the bus earlier makes it easier for parents to leave for work instead of sending them to daycare for a half an hour. High school students can get themselves on the bus after parents leave for work. The whole thing is just bass ackwards.

10-2 should be the school day, My mind was good for about 4 hours.

Yup

My school would've still required you to be in homeroom at 7:20am and sit through two study halls in a row.

Why do we even need high school when they can just learn from tiktok?