I'm not going to sit here and argue that the belief itself exists as it's obvious that it does. Lots of people believe a lot of things, to argue otherwise is nonsensical. I've argued against this stuff myself before so I'm not going to take your word for it that it doesn't exist.

What the source I cited does for sure show is that NMC batteries (used in phones) do in fact last for about 300 cycles to 70% if you discharge 100% every time, not your 500 cycles to 80% claim.

Table 6 also shows that the figure I cited as closest to what I'm arguing for (which is 60-10%) 75-25%, had 88% capacity at 5000 cycles as opposed to the 80% for 100-40, with the line definitely trending much more heavily down the Y axis than the 75-25. By 9000 cycles, 75-25% would have 84% capacity while 100-40 would have 69% (nice) 100-25% would have 62% proving that the maximum you allow your battery to charge is truly the main deciding factor here. The depth of discharge for 100-25 is 75, 100-40 is 60, 100-50 is 50 and 75-25 is 50. So comparing apples to apples, the 100-50 has about 74% capacity remaining while the 75-25 range has 84%, a 10% capacity difference over 9000 cycles which is pretty incredible. It proves beyond a doubt that the lower discharge of 25% does not negatively effect the battery nearly as much as how HIGH you charge it does. I'm insanely confident that my 60-10 I use for my own phone is more efficient than the 75-25 they use in table 6, and likely even more efficient than the 75-65 even though I'm able to use 50% of my batteries capacity as opposed to 10%.

As for the extra protection phones have.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutoff_voltage which cites http://www.ibt-power.com/Battery_packs/Li_Ion/Lithium_ion_tech.html as it's source. This shows a cutoff of 3v, although it also says manufacturers set this limit themselves which is kind of obvious. I doubt they set the limit just above what kills the phone, otherwise we'd hear of phones being replaced every few months instead of every 2 years as normal. I also never did claim phones have extra protection, just that they have a BMS that protects them from full discharges. Again with the strawman arguments...

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So basically don't have kids.

I used to be very good at taking a break when I needed one. With kids that's just not possible. Taking care of your kids for like an hour is not very hard, you just don't get to have kids for just an hour.

> I never said that discharging your battery causes it to explode.

You never claimed that it actually would, you claimed that other people claimed it would, here

> is dispel this myth that it's catastrophically damaging to your phone battery to discharge it to 0%.

Once again this belief does not exist. Furthermore

> You can pretty safely discharge your battery well below the 40% level and still expect amazing longevity, you're really making the very most gains in your battery by not charging to 100%. The "Don't discharge below this level" gang is talking about miniscule battery life gains, and here I am trying to promote massive multi-year gains.

Once again your own source doesnt actually prove your point and in part argues against it. Since as you note, table 6 does not test discharge to 0%, it is impossible to actually use it to determine if not charging fully or not discharging fully is better if you had to decide between only doing one. In order to do so would require testing 75-0% in order to compare against 100%-25%

However it does completely and definitively disprove your claim that

> "Don't discharge below this level" gang is talking about miniscule battery life gains

As previously stated the typical 100%-0% lifespan to 80% of original capacity is 500 cycles. Per table 6, the 100%-25% lifespan to 80% was 3500 cycles while the 100-40% lifespan was 5000 cycles. This translates to a 7 times and 10 times extension in battery life respectively.

This is exactly the massive multi year gain that you claimed it did not bring. Furthermore it suggests that the reason that limited maximum charge was not tested in the first place is since it was obviously the first step one would take to extend battery life.

> however phone batteries are super well protected against this type of damage and often stop battery draw well before the battery actually loses all charge.

If you actually go look at a lithium ion discharge graph, as current draw decreases, the voltage curve shifts upward and rightwards. This means that as discharge reduces , the state of charge that a voltage represents is lower and lower. Phones are a low power, high energy application, which means that even if you set the lvp to 3v, a full 0.5v over 2.5v, it represents very little remaining energy. And once again, I did initially ask for a source that showed that phones have some extra protection that normal batteries dont have, which you have not posted.

This graphic is bad; the batteries are draining the wrong direction 🙄

“When you wear rose-colored glasses, red flags just look like flags.”

I used to draw my birds like that as a kid. Such memories.

Im not allowed to go home at 1 pm

No breaks here I live in America and I’m not in the top 20%. Basically I live to work and worry about how I’m going to pay off debt.

Unfortunately I gotta keep my phone mostly plugged in to run the app I’m working on 😭

Heh as my phone battery is 5%

That's what happens when you take e at 4:00 AM on a workday.

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Okay that one hits deep.

Oof.

Thing is I need about a week long break; but, instead I only get two 15s and a thirty minute lunch.

IKR.

I just assumed other people stood at the charging location while it charged.

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but yellow feels like green :(

I'm not sure if you're intentionally misreading everything I've posted or not, but I never said that discharging your battery causes it to explode. Table 6, the third best result was discharging from 75%-25%, which was the lowest discharge they bothered to test. The very worst was 100%-25%, and the second worst was 100%-40% and even 85-25% performed much worse. The only results with better performance were 75-45 and 75-65, both of which are basically impossible to maintain if you have a real job where you can't just sit there and stare at your phone battery the whole time.

However they didn't test the range I've been testing for the past year, and the results have been very very good between 60-15%. I Haven't lost any capacity at all as far as I can tell, and it's counting each charge in this range as being about 0.02 cycles but we'll see how this goes during the next few years. At minimum I'm expecting to stay above 75% capacity for 4 years, but if it drags out to 8 I'm not going to be crying about it.

Just so we're clear, in the first post in this chain I did say this: Discharging the battery entirely can be bad, however phone batteries are super well protected against this type of damage and often stop battery draw well before the battery actually loses all charge.

So you're kind of arguing against a strawman anyways. You can pretty safely discharge your battery well below the 40% level and still expect amazing longevity, you're really making the very most gains in your battery by not charging to 100%. The "Don't discharge below this level" gang is talking about miniscule battery life gains, and here I am trying to promote massive multi-year gains.

…and then a snake bites your face? Hmm. Not super motivating, lol

If I followed this advice my back might still work.

Thanks, I'll tell my toddlers asap.

Definitely better, though that's a low bar to clear! Ha. Still work like 60 hour weeks, and have to travel a lot. But I enjoy the work itself and they make it worth my while, so can't complain too much.

> It's not something that all lithium ion batteries have, and if you used them in something other than phones

My talking about charging ~overcharged~~ overdischarged cells should clue you in that i have experience handling lithium cells. Yes you can buy raw lithium cells that dont have an attached pcm/bms. The point is that it is standard to use them with one. The only use I am aware of that regularly doesnt use one is RC quads where they use a single lvp for the entire pack, necessitating the use of balance chargers and often fireproof bags

> dispel this myth that it's catastrophically damaging to your phone battery to discharge it to 0%.

That myth straight up does not exist. There is literally no common belief discharging your phone to zero will cause to explode. The exact opposite belief, that you need to discharge your phone to 0% regularly to prevent memory effect like you did with NiMH cells, is far more common.

Everyone saying that you should avoid discharging your battery below 40% or 30% is advising to do so in order to prolong battery lifespan. This is something that you explcitly argued against in your original comment, and is what I took exception to:

> , but you can discharge as low as you want.

Yet your own battery university link that you edited in proves that in table 2 and disproves your statment.

> It's not. Your phone turns off at 10% capacity at the very least

I literally said as much before you did

> the low voltage protection is set to a high voltage such as 2.7v or 3v instead of the actual minimum voltage of 2.5v. That doesnt protect you nearly as much as it sounds like because the voltage curve is not linear, it flattens out at 3.7v for a while, so 3.3v is already down to 15% left or so