Making a splice for all your neutrals together is common. You'll also see it happen at a switch where your hot wire forks to feed both a switch and then leaves the box to feed a plug with constant hot. Keep in mind that electricity doesn't care what color the wire is and sometimes the original electrician doesn't care either.

If you really want to know more, study parallel circuits and series-parallel circuits. This is the science behind electrical work. The pigtails coming off a spliced connection is an example of power feeding along "parallel lines."

The switch being "in front" of the lights in a similar circuit is an example of a series-parallel circuit if I recall correctly.

I also recommend you study the difference between single pole switches, 3-way switches, and electronic switches if you can afford the 20 minutes.

I will try this when I get home from church.

Out of curiosity, as I've been turning it over in my mind, is it common practice to not connect the white "return" wire to a switch and just pig tail them all together as seen in the pic? I have only ever swapped out plugs and both sets of wires connect to the plug.

Ballasts can go bad* - if you have the expertise just get the direct wire replacement.

Black is usually hot. Whether it's line or load I can't tell from a picture after things have been removed. Red would typically be going from a switch to an outlet or light. Or whoever did the original wiring ran out of black and used red. It happens.

OK, do you know what a pigtail is? Make a couple pigtails off the couple white wires that are nutted in the back and take each pigtail to one device. Use at minimum 14 AWG wire, or 12AWG. But take note. That 3-way on the right is using a white wire to carry current, probably as a runner or traveler. Check the other 3-way switch in the room and you'll see it there, too.

This should show you that a white wire is not always a neutral, ESPECIALLY in homes. Ok?

Also, if your smart switch is a dimmer, you ought to turn the circuit off, just in case you haven't done that. Hooking an electronic dimmer up "hot" will kill it with inrush current.

The three way switch on the right doesn't connect to the cluster of white wires at all, that I can tell.

Edit: my home was built in the 1980s, with the possibility that these switches are located in a converted garage updated sometime after that.

The white wire that's wirenutted and stuffed in the box, is could be your neutral for a switch on the left. Trace that wire to other boxes if you can to be sure. Make sure it's not connected as the hot on other devices. Does the 3-way switch on the right use the white wire somewhere? That's a clue.

Neutrals are required in switch boxes, but that's a very recent code update. It's equally likely you'll have to run your own neutral.

Traditional, non-electronic switches don't use a neutral because there's no load on a switch. All a switch does it connect or disconnect the circuit behind the switch; i.e: your light(s).

Electronic switches do take a neutral because they carry a load.

So that I understand correctly - I have three wires coming from one line. White, black, and copper out of three sets; white, black, and red out of a 4th. 4 lines in.

The black is load, white neutral, bare copper is ground.

The red out of the 4th line (no copper on that wire) is my switched hot, aka a runner?

White is neutral. Black and red are hot. Red, usually is switched hot.

Great news!

Thanks for the update :)

No! If you aren't sucking til you get a bit of nasty shit in your mouth you're not siphoning properly!!

This worked, thanks!! I cleaned it up as well dw

Thats because by very definition a ballast is current limiting.

If you do it correctly you won't ingest any water

Remove the ballast. Led just spoil very fast with the ballast. Also, make sure there is no dimmer switch

Some replacements can work on either ballasts or directly wired (but only one or the other—once energized, they can’t be swapped)

My experience has been that the light was brighter without the ballast.

I thought you were supposed to just cut out the ballasts when switching to LED? I'm sure someone will correct me.

While you can leave the ballast in, I think its recommended to remove them if you are capable.

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Get a Siphon hose with pump don't suck on a siphon hose you don't know how nasty that water is. as long as the container it is going into is lower then the water should drain.

I’m just talking about closing off the gap so I can hide the view of the kitchen. also the bar area becomes a catchall for junk so I’d just like to get ideas of a temporary “wall” of sorts

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You have upper cabinets, so what is the plan if you turn that area into wall?

I also think this is a terrible idea. Just trading one frustration for another.

that’s a cool idea!!

This is the answer. Something is loose, OP needs to find that and tighten or secure