This is one of the big problems with this argument. Right on red is only unsafe if people are driving badly and failing to check their mirrors/blind spot before turning. It’s true that people will always drive badly to some degree, but it’s not clear what the limits of that line of reasoning are. Cars are dangerous-we accept this because of the level of convenience they afford. You decrease their convenience, then you decrease their danger, yes, but at a certain point you’re just preventing them from carrying out their function. I feel like the priority ought to be on finding ways to improve people’s driving ability, because at least in Cambridge it’s often pretty scary (source: I drive a truck around Cambridge most days of the week).

I shouldn’t have to worry about getting plastered if the driver at the stop looks, doesn’t see me or notice me, sees no cars, and guns it to get to their destination a tiny bit faster. That’s just me though.

Right on red (in my experience) is treated as a right of the driver to make that turn by many. I have more often been killed by a driver in a crosswalk trying to make a right on red then any other traffic maneuver. It often involves drivers whipping around corners, barely stopping in my observation. Not to mention the incessant beeping that drivers farther down the queue make to bully drivers at the front into doing the right in red.

I'm not going to sacrifice my safety (or others safety) at the altar of the law. I'm just not. The law isn't some sacred thing that's worth dying for.

"I don't care what the law says I'm doing my own thing" really sums up every discussion about bikes/cars around here.

Mass Ave and Churchill in North Cambridge was the first one I found out about. The left turn arrow phase doesn't activate unless someone is actually turning.

Legit question (not trying to troll) but is the data for pedestrian/cyclist safety based purely on accidents at lights or specific to red light behavior. I ask because Cambridge has a ton of anti-car intersection where the pedestrian lights are only green when the traffic lights are also green, but the only direction for traffic is a turn (aka you are forcing cars into pedestrians due to lights). I'd be curious what the effects of safety are with these setups as well

Great to hear. Any examples to point out for us?

Anecdotes aren't evidence. But even if they were, that anecdote wouldn't be - if you're treating the red light like a stop sign, you still wouldn't go while people are crossing. So that behavior would be illegal even if Idaho Stop was legal.

I agree that everyone is an asshole while transiting in this state. I don't agree that the law trumps safety.

Counter evidence: I've been hit twice (once resulting in physical therapy) by bikes while crossing in a crosswalk while I have the right of way. Once in Boston near BU, and once in Central Square. Despite that, I still support bike lanes, I still support bus lanes, I still support all of it.

It doesn't change the fact that everyone is an asshole when transiting in this state and if you want the Idaho Stop to be a thing here then get it passed and in the books.

And just to be clear, for whatever reason, my primary and preferred mode of transit is the T

Cambridge is installing video sensors at many intersections now. Wherever they pop up, waiting time is greatly reduced.

Those people are in cars and can kill me. Bikes can't do that. If you want to go against the evidence I posted that it's safer, you're going to have to provide counter evidence of some sort.

Yes, being unpredictable on the road makes it less safe. Do you enjoy people changing lanes without turn signals? What about turning on red when there is a no turn on red?

And your argument is beside the point when it's not legal in Mass. If it's safer, then make it a traffic law and then it can be taught and properly enforced when a car fucks up and hits a biker who practices it.

We have stats available to say this would help everyone. See DC, NYC, and Montreal. Compliance for no turn on red is much higher than compliance for stopping/yielding to pedestrians before a turn on red.

I just posted a link showing it's safer for everyone and you're telling me it's less safe for everyone?

If you want it to be a law then get it on the ballot. Until then, you're unpredictable on the road and makes it less safe for everyone. Just because you disagree with current laws on stop signs and stop lights doesn't give you free reign to bypass them.

Yeah, why can't dose dam cyclist follow every law to the kine that's in the Driving License booklet!!

Idaho stop

>The Idaho stop is the common name for laws that allow cyclists to treat a stop sign as a yield sign, and a red light as a stop sign. It first became law in Idaho in 1982, but was not adopted elsewhere until Delaware adopted a limited stop-as-yield law, the "Delaware Yield", in 2017. Arkansas was the second state to legalize both stop-as-yield and red light-as-stop in April 2019. Studies in Delaware and Idaho have shown significant decreases in crashes at stop-controlled intersections.

^([ )^(F.A.Q)^( | )^(Opt Out)^( | )^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)^( | )^(GitHub)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)

It's actually safer for everyone if cyclists treat red lights as stop signs and stop signs as yield signs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop

Whats the argument? Everyone ignores traffic laws in Cambridge because CPD doesn't enforce anything.

Oh great. These are great arguments everyone enjoys.

All of them, since the cops don’t enforce traffic laws here

I feel like you don’t really know the meaning of right on red. It’s not, ignore the red light… it’s, if there’s no pedestrian on the right and you have a clear opportunity to make that right turn without interfering with another vehicle’s right of way, you may do so. Safety is built into the meaning. People run reds all the time, people jaywalk all the time, bikers don’t stop at reds. Nothing is safe for anyone

Cyclists ignore / break (take your pick) just as many traffic laws as drivers, there are just less of them and they (usually) can't hurt the other classes of people on the road, with pedestrians at the mercy of everyone. Everyone transits like an asshole these days.

Right turn on red isn’t just “go on red”. It means you are allowed to turn right if you have a clear turn without interfering with someone else’s right of way.